[The following conversation took place after a class on Sri Caitanya-caritamrita]
Jaga-mohana dasa: Prabhuji, you said that sometimes a disciple leaves his Guru and comes back. One time in the West Srila Gurudeva gave a class on the different demons. He said that Trnavarta represents scientific arguments. He also said that the Trnavarta demon represents a disciple who comes to Guru and leaves the Guru. Can you expand on this?
Prabhuji: I am not Trnavarta, so how can I explain?
Trnavarta tried collecting everything and tried to throw everything away. A disciple like Trnavarta comes to Guru and tries taking everything away. Before, Krsna was with Yasoda, but Trnavarta came and took Krsna and tried throwing Him away. Many demons come to our asrama. They come and speak sweet words and try stealing someone away. Stealing them away, they engage in sense enjoyment. They steal the devotee away from Guru’s asrama. This is Trnavarta’s nature. He doesn’t like a happy group. He doesn’t like God and His family. He doesn’t like Guru and his family. He wants to only destroy everything. Therefore, these are Trnavarta’s rules. He wants to only destroy.
He will say, “I am throwing everything away. Why don’t you follow me? Why do you follow Caitanya?”
Everybody likes Caitanya Mahaprabhu. He wanted to deprive everyone of Caitanya (consciousness). Krsna was so happy with Yasoda and the Vrajavasis. So, Trnavarta thought, “If I kill Krsna, then everything will be destroyed.” Hence, some approach Guru with this demoniac policy. They try stealing.
If there is a place where everyone is chanting, listening to hari-katha, and engaged in many services, then someone will come and say, “Oh why don’t you come there? What are you doing here? Why are you wasting your time here? There are many nice things in that place.”
They bribe the devotee and steal him or her away. After that devotee has lost his life, that person will clap his hands. They cannot tolerate unity. Why do these people come to destroy? They can go themselves; why do they steal other persons? New people don’t know anything. Trnavarta is the group leader. If I say something, then people will become angry. But I have no problem; I don’t care. A gardener makes a nice garden. But an unscrupulous person enters the garden and destroys. After making the garden dry, he claps his hands.
So, people are engaged in listening to hari-katha and doing many services. But some come and try bribing people. They say, “Why are you here? What are you doing? There are no mahabhagavatas here. Only fallen souls are here. He is doing these nonsense things. You don’t know his character and nature.”
They have no idea of what they say or do. And after stealing a devotee away, they destroy his life. Then they are very happy. Why does one waste his time and life like this? They say, “What has he given you this past twenty years? How do you feel? This is not Gurudeva’s temple.”
They speak so much like this. I think that these people only speak like this because of their bad fortune. They are running after their own destruction. They are so eager to destroy themselves. Even if I tell them to not destroy themselves, they will say, “You are disturbing me! I want to immediately ruin myself.”
They are like Trnavarta. They come and make everyone blind. Trnavarta made dust enter into everyone’s eyes, ears, and nose. Yasoda Mata thought, “What should I do? How can I save Krsna?” She put Krsna down to protect Him.
But Krsna thought, “Mother, if I am on your lap, then it will be a problem for you also. You should put Me aside.”
Then Trnavarta took Krsna away. If anyone wants to leave, then why tell him to never go? He will try pulling me away also. So, I tell him, “Okay Baba. If you want, you can go. But don’t disturb me. Haribol.” This is the main problem. This is very disturbing. Therefore, Gurudeva said:
ananyas cintayanto mam
ye jana paryupasate
yoka-ksemam vahamy aham
Sri Bhagavad Gita 9.22
[But those who worship Me with devotion, meditating on My transcendental form, to them I carry what they lack and preserve what they have.]
dadami buddhi-yogam tam
yena mam upayanti te
Sri Bhagavad Gita 10.10
[To those who are constantly devoted and worship Me with love, I give the understanding by which they can come to Me.]
When I came to Gurudeva, many of my so-called godbrothers and godsisters told me, “Why are you near Maharaja? What is he giving you?”
I told them, “Who are you? Why are you asking me? Why are you talking with me? Where have you come from? I don’t know you. Your advice is not for me. You should advice yourself. You should go away from here. Please don’t talk with me.”
I never care for such people. Why? Gurudeva always told me to be one-pointed. Srila Gurudeva is accepting and protecting us; he is giving us shelter and taking care of us. Why should I go here and there? All are mahabhagavatas; but I am not a mahabhagavata.
Gurudeva said, “If you are a mahabhagavata, then Krsna will send you near a mahabhagavata. Krsna will send you for training here. Your progress will be had here. Krsna is our all in all. He will arrange and send us near a mahabhagavata. Then I will automatically go to him by Krsna’s arrangement.”
If Krsna is not arranging, then why are you jumping and running by force? You have no position. A child thinks, “I will go to the Ph.D. or D.Lit. classes.” But he doesn’t understand anything; he doesn’t understand the classes or the students. Nobody likes him. Then he will become friends with a boy his same age and he will learn ABCD and gradually progress. This is much better.
Therefore, many of Prabhupada Sarasvati Thakura’s mahabhagavata disciples came. They said many things. They said, “You are a karmi.” But if you are appointed, Trnavarta can never touch you. I heard Srila Gurudeva’s purports on this Trnavarta demon. During this Kartika, I will speak on the roles of the various demons in Krsna-lila. I will speak if Gurudeva gives me a chance. Gurudeva would explain everything. But there is no time now. Before, Gurudeva would explain the meaning behind the appearance of Putana, Sakatasura, Trnavarta, and other demons. Baba, those explanations were so deep! Gurudeva would explain on one demon’s appearance for ten days. He explained Kaliya-damana lila for one month. I repeat what Gurudeva said.
Krsna told Kaliya, “Kaliya, don’t you know good etiquette? You have no intelligence despite coming to Vrndavana. Now I will teach you. In Vrndavana, no one is bad. You are black; I am black. Everyone insult Me and tell Me, “A black person has no brain.” Now I see that you really have no brain. Otherwise, this insult will come for Me. I am black; you belong to My caste and religion. So, I will make you good. I will dance on you and clean you. I will make you good.”
Gurudeva gave this explanation and explained the dialogue between Krsna and Kaliya exactly as it took place. So, these classes ran for so many years. But after some time Gurudeva enterd ardha-bahya dasa. Gurudeva oscillated from a state of external to internal consciousness. And after some more time, he completely entered antara-dasa—the state of complete internal consciousness. The Manjaris and Vraja Devis have these moods and service tendencies. When Gurudeva went to the Western countries, he didn’t look at anything. He is always in eternal Vrndavana; then it was not possible for him to look at anyone or at anything. But he would speak when he came to bahya-dasa (external consciousness). But he would only speak for some time. Otherwise, he would never speak at all.
Jaga-mohana dasa: Can we go to Govardhana after the first half of Kartika? Giri will stay here and look after everything.
Prabhuji: How can we maintain? Where will this food and lodging come from?
Jaga-mohana dasa: Giri can send prasadam.
Prabhuji: I am now indebted for the Samadhi. Gautam came and handed me a bill of sixty lakhs. He told me this bill is due for only paying the workers. Baba, we are indebted so much now. But after Gurudeva’s Samadhi is complete, then if Gurudeva gives chance after one or two years, then we will go. Before, I had a desire to go to Nandagaon-Varsana or to Kamyavana, but not now. It is not possible this year.
Jaga-mohana dasa: Also, some devotees are preaching and doing hard work to get new devotees. And then, older devotees get their email-addresses and phone numbers and steal them.
Prabhuji: No. This is not their fault (the older devotees). This is because of the jiva’s own karma.
Jaga-mohana dasa: But the devotees’ hard work.
Prabhuji: No. No problem. God is accepting your hard work. God knows everything. How much patience do you have?
Jaga-mohana dasa: But they lose enthusiasm.
Prabhuji: No. This is for your patience and tolerance. If one is lost, another devotee can be made. Many more people can become devotees. This is our sadhana. From my childhood, so many came to me. I served everybody; but everybody is gone. But, new devotees came. I know that after some time, some of these devotees will take sannyasa and go to preach. But more new devotees will come. No problem. You should not think like this. Anyone can go anywhere; you should not have any tension. Why do you have tension? There are innumerable souls. As soon as a soul empties a post, another soul comes to occupy the post. The post will never be empty. You should not think like this. To think as such is not commendable. This is negative thinking.
Jaga-mohana dasa: The jiva has only so much energy.
Prabhuji: Everybody has energy. If God has energy, then why can the jivas not have energy?
Jaga-mohana dasa: They have small energy?
Prabhuji: No. Then how are they God’s servants? No. Energy will never be lost. Energy will only increase. And then, very good scholars will come near you. If you are a scholar i.e. if you have tolerance and patience, then a good person will come near you. So many devotees came to Gurudeva during his final preaching tour. So many came! You must not think like this. If they bribe and take others away, the others will still return. Like in ISKCON. They did many things to cultivate devotees. But everyone came to Gurudeva. You should not think like this. I never invite or call anyone; but how have all these devotees come? Who is preaching to them? If you have desire for God’s service, then God will arrange everything.
Jaga-mohana dasa: You said earlier that the gopis see many Krsnas. Can we extend that idea and think that Krsna is also there with the Brahmavadis, Muslims, Christians, and with people of other faiths?
Prabhuji: Yes. Good. If they have this much capacity, then they will go there. Not everyone will become a mahabhagavata. Some will be kanisthas and madhyamas. There are many religions and castes. People belong to these religions or castes because of their own karma. They are slowly progressing.
Jaga-mohana dasa: There is one famous quote of Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura. He said, “Party spirit or group consciousness is a great enemy of truth.” But sometimes peo think, “Our group is good. That group is bad.”
Prabhuji: No. You should not think, “Our group and your group.” Everybody belongs to God’s group. The thought, “Our group and your group,” reflects a sectarian mentality. This is madness.
Jaga-mohana dasa: How can we be protected from such a mentality?
Prabhuji: This is not protection. If you protect yourself, then all forms of protection will come. You need only protect yourself; you should be one-pointed (ananya). Then your power will go to another person and he will also be ananya. Others will also become one-pointed. But if you are in hodge-podge condition, then if your sakti goes to others, they will also become entangled in a hodge-podge condition.
Firstly, you must be strong. This is our sadhana.
Gaura Premanande! Hari Haribol!
[CC-by-NDNC Bhakta Bandhav]